Adaptive Marketing in Travel and Tourism, with Brian Bossuyt

Nicole Mahoney: 00:23 Hello listeners, this is Nicole Mahoney, host of destination on the left. I am passionate about traveling, tourism and love learning from the experiences of professionals in the industry and that is why I’m so excited to introduce today’s guests. Brian Basit. Brian is the executive vice president and COO of the Pocono mountains visitor bureau marketing the Pocono mountains. Over the past 20 years, Brian was formerly [inaudible] the sales and marketing director for camelback mountain resort for 18 years before joining the Pocono mountains visitor bureau. He says it’s been a wonderful ride and he has enjoyed every minute of it. Developing successful marketing campaigns targeting two of the country’s largest and top dms, New York metro and the Philadelphia Metro has made Brian stand top of his game by constantly learning and evolving to stay current and relevant. Both markets are constantly on the cutting edge of technology and have a lot of competition for their attention with limited budgets and marketing resources. Brian credits, learning to adapt quickly, understanding and using accurate analytical data when planning strategies, developing strong partnerships, using fun, engaging creative, and not being afraid to make a mistake and learn from those mistakes as the key factors to having successful campaigns. Brian loves family. Being a husband, dad, and playing in the outdoors as much as possible. He likes to keep things simple and to the point and believes you get more done that way. He describes himself as pretty laid back and as someone who looks at it, everything with as much atomism as possible. And Brian, thank you so much for joining us and I just love that bio.

Nicole Mahoney: 00:23 Hello listeners, this is Nicole Mahoney, host of destination on the left. I am passionate about traveling, tourism and love learning from the experiences of professionals in the industry and that is why I’m so excited to introduce today’s guests. Brian Basit. Brian is the executive vice president and COO of the Pocono mountains visitor bureau marketing the Pocono mountains. Over the past 20 years, Brian was formerly [inaudible] the sales and marketing director for camelback mountain resort for 18 years before joining the Pocono mountains visitor bureau. He says it’s been a wonderful ride and he has enjoyed every minute of it. Developing successful marketing campaigns targeting two of the country’s largest and top dms, New York metro and the Philadelphia Metro has made Brian stand top of his game by constantly learning and evolving to stay current and relevant. Both markets are constantly on the cutting edge of technology and have a lot of competition for their attention with limited budgets and marketing resources. Brian credits, learning to adapt quickly, understanding and using accurate analytical data when planning strategies, developing strong partnerships, using fun, engaging creative, and not being afraid to make a mistake and learn from those mistakes as the key factors to having successful campaigns. Brian loves family. Being a husband, dad, and playing in the outdoors as much as possible. He likes to keep things simple and to the point and believes you get more done that way. He describes himself as pretty laid back and as someone who looks at it, everything with as much atomism as possible. And Brian, thank you so much for joining us and I just love that bio.

Brian Bossuyt: 01:58 Oh, thank you.

Nicole Mahoney: 01:59 Yes. Okay.

Brian Bossuyt: 02:00 A pleasure being on your show.

Nicole Mahoney: 02:01 Yeah. I’m excited to talk to you and, uh, and uh, and learn from you. And, and I, I love how you talk about, um, in your bio, you know, the, the constraints of limited budgets and marketing resources, but then all of those pointers, just in your bio alone, you’re already teaching our listeners about, you know, how, how you can be successful with campaigns even despite a limited budget or limited marketing resources. So I think that’s just awesome. But before we dive into the questions, I love to hear your story in your own words. I think it adds just so much more context to our conversation. So could you tell us a little bit about your journey and how you got to where you are today?

Brian Bossuyt: 02:40 Sure. Um, I grew up in the Poconos and uh, you know, always kind of been in the hot seat. How the industry in some form or shape, why not. I started, you know, helping family businesses that were friends of my family, um, with some things like be in a bus. [inaudible] had a family restaurant when I was around 11 and 12. My parents are own and still own a, a real estate company were helping them, you know, setting up houses or you know, stripping sheets, [inaudible] sheets in getting ready for runners, getting, you know, home set up for sale, always being available to help my parents and just being a part of that hospitality industry. I’m from being a lifeguard as well as, um, a waiter. Boy I was a cook for a little while, so dabbled in a lot of things, worked for a ski shop.

Brian Bossuyt: 03:29 And that’s when I found my love of the ski industry. I grew up skiing, started when I was around three years old and just really loved that industry. And over time, uh, when I was in high school and looking at colleges, I want to find a program where I can be more involved with possibly going to work for a skier and being a management eskie or someday. And that’s kind of what kind of led me through my journey as becoming an adult and going to college. I majored in sports management at slippery rock university. It was the second school in the country to have that program. Um, in the, um, mid nineties. So it was a cutting edge program and it really, you know, showed the business side of sports and it was a great program. And after college I, um, moved on and uh, did my internship at Hunter Mountain at the ski industry.

Brian Bossuyt: 04:19 Yep. Okay. In our sales and marketing department. And the best part about that internship was that they really included me a lot that they overall operations of the resort and I was there for about five months and really got immersed in the culture of the ski industry and everything else that comes with it and just fell in love with it more and more. And after my internship and graduating college, um, Aye looked around for some jobs, both in the Poconos, in the northeast and Vermont and that area and out west and okay. Found ’em camelback and uh, I had been working there as Lyft attended through college, so I had some contacts there and started working there at their front desk. And then a few months I was in the marketing department. And, uh, the, it was great timing to be there after my first year. Um, they broke ground on the outdoor water park that they have now, Campbell beach.

Brian Bossuyt: 05:14 And from there on out, uh, over the years, it just kept expanding. And I got promoted and as the assistant marketing director there after the a water park opened and then shortly thereafter I became the sales marketing director and was there for all the different expansions that they had and a change of ownership as well. And I really love that [inaudible] company in that business and everything that came with it. I got the meat, great people throughout my years. And you know, one of the things that’s, and successful and one of the things I learned from that job is the way you build a team around you really helps you be successful. And you know, I’ve learned from some good managers and some bad managers and just kind of tried to craft my managerial skills over the year. Just learning to adapt to, um, a seasonal job is, teaches you to be more creative.

Brian Bossuyt: 06:04 And you have to adapt quickly because of the weather and you know, even at the visitor’s bureau now are our seasons are so dependent on weather. So learning how to, you know, adapt to those different things and making sure your creative is up to date and that your messages right. I think uh, the first year that I was in the job with the visitors bureau [inaudible] was the warmest winter we ever had on record on the Pocono mountains. And you know, we had our winter campaigns all set to go and I think we delayed them until mid January and we started promoting all the outdoor activities that weren’t winter and what kind of creative messages we could do and what we could do with the website and social media. So just learning to adapt and making sure that you have a plan in place and a backup. I plan on, I think those are some of the things that have helped me be successful and helped where I’ve been and the teams that I’ve had be successful because we’re all always willing to learn and adapt and learn from our mistakes as well as learn from the different things that we’ve had to change over the time.

Brian Bossuyt: 07:02 So that’s kind of the long and short end of my story. And, um, you know, I’m a firm believer that you’d have to find the right people to do good job with you because I don’t like micromanaging. I think managing a team is you build them, you build your team based off their strengths so that you can get the, the job done and the message out there and, um, it’s usually a funner experience working together that way.

Nicole Mahoney: 07:27 Absolutely. Um, and I, I just, uh, love so much about your story. Um, to start, I love how ingrained the hospitality industry is, you know, in your or wise in your upbringing. Um, you know, all of that front line experience that you had as you were growing up. Um, and then how you were able to kind of find your, your passion and, and go after that sports management degree. Um, but what I would I really loved is how you talked about having a plan and having a backup plan and how, uh, you know, how contingent things can be, especially, you know, any destination really is. Um, regardless, I believe even if you’re a warm, year-round warm destination, there’s always weather, um, issues or weather changes that come up and you need to be ready at any time to adapt and adjust. I think that’s just fantastic.

Brian Bossuyt: 08:20 Yeah. I also forgot to mention, um, you know, I started bartending about 20 years ago and I still bartend one night a week as a moonlighting job. And one of the reasons I love doing that is in a vacation community. So get the, kind of, ask people how they found out about the Poconos or how they found out about certain things. So it’s a little market research as well as having a good time bartending. So I still do that on the side as well.

Nicole Mahoney: 08:45 You know, and I think that’s a good point cause I think that’s so important to, you know, keep your um, your finger on the pulse if you will, and really understand what is happening out there in the destination. You know, sometimes if we’re marketing the destination and we’re attracting those visitors, if we don’t actually get our feet on the ground and talk to the visitors and understand who really is coming and, and how they found us, um, know we might miss opportunities that way. So I think that’s a great point.

Brian Bossuyt: 09:11 Yeah. And my family and I, we love going to all the different things that go on in the Poconos, whether it be events or festivals or gone to the properties. And I really get to spend some time with guests that are there and they have no idea who I am. And it’s just fun to kind of interact and learn from them and see what their challenges are. And then you can take that [inaudible] back and look at those things when you’re putting together your marketing plans and how you’re talking to the visitors. So it’s, it’s always good to get out there and kind of immerse yourself in the [inaudible] and the destination and learn more from the visitors as well, talking to your, your members and your operators and [inaudible] their challenges are, and just keeping that open line of communication.

Nicole Mahoney: 09:49 [inaudible] absolutely. I think that’s awesome. So creativity has already come up a couple of times in our conversation and I’d, I’d like to dive into some of these questions and I’m curious. Um, you know, the, the tourism and hospitality industry is very competitive. There’s so many choices of places, people to visit, different experiences that people can have. They can even choose to stay home and not to travel. And so I’m wondering what you have done, um, to stand out from the crowd.

Brian Bossuyt: 10:18 I think some of the things that we’ve done, especially now on the Plat past few years, we’ve really tried to take a different approach to our, our marketing and creative and message. So on the broadcast end of it, you know, we’ve really, we’ve started doing more of a two minute segment that includes three to four different properties that are similar in a message and that gives us a little more longer format content that we started running in New York and Philly. And then we moved those to our local markets, regional markets as well as into the Washington and Baltimore markets as well. And that gives us a little bit longer form content that we can then use to push out through social and digital as well and telling that whole story. And then we have a healthy mix of using similar creative to reach the those visitors while there watching those commercials and we run them in the highest rated news so that they look more like a news package, but then we, they part are digital and social around when those ads are being run so that we’re getting them on multiple devices across channels and then hitting them when are maybe not watching it maybe on Ott and connected TV as well.

Brian Bossuyt: 11:24 So we really tried to keep the same message but craft differently for the different mediums. So it’s driving them for the same area to learn more about the different things that we have to offer. And that’s kind of how we’ve molded our, our creativity over the last couple of years. Another thing we did was we brought creative and all of our media buying and how some are placed in everything directly, which has really helped us optimize our campaigns, test our creative more. We can do more ab testing, see which creative is better on which mediums and then really optimize yeah. Those creative messages to the markets and our target audiences the way that we want and really keep pushing out the message that’s resonating more with those audiences rather than just trying to figure it out. We use data a lot to try and figure out what messages work. And after each campaign we go back and look at that, try and crack the next campaign based off what we’ve learned from the other campaigns.

Nicole Mahoney: 12:19 Yeah. I think, uh, I think that’s um, so important. And I’d like to know a little bit more about what data, what types of data are you using and, and are you using any, you know, outside, um, tools or measurement tools that are helping you with that. If you could expand on that a little bit. I know using, figuring out data and how to use it best I know is, is definitely a challenge for many of our listeners. So I’d love to know a little bit more about how you are, uh, leveraging that and how you’re, how you’re finding but the data that you need.

Brian Bossuyt: 12:51 Sure. So one of the challenges for me coming into the DMO industry from a resort, you know, I have the ability to track all of my sales prove ROI based off campaigns. And as with DMR you don’t, we don’t really own anything and we don’t really get to track everything till the end. So it was really learning to find some technology out there that could help me accomplish that. And I found a company where it uses location data that I can really pixel and track all of my digital ads as well as social ads. And anything online to see when the first time person sees our add on what on different mediums. And then the travel path that they see with different digital ads as well as we’re starting to figure out how to add broadcast in the bed as well. And it shows the journey of where they’re coming from, what market the time it takes from when they first see the ad all the way through when they’re in market.

Brian Bossuyt: 13:44 And we can follow them up to 30 feet for as long as they’re in the market and look at different points of interest that we [inaudible] okay. To see where they’re going within our market and then how long they go and then when they come back. And it also helps me use that data to figure out what markets are the strongest, where we can have opportunities to grow in new markets and what’s the best way to retarget those markets. So it’s a, it’s a whole combination of that. And then looking at, you know, since we’re replacing all the digital media directly as well, we can then take all that information, layer it in with the location data and it really helps us plan where we want to go. Two, not only expand on the markets we’re doing well in, but what are some of the opportunities and new markets to help back sell some a loss, especially in the New York and Philly markets. Cause there’s so much competition, we have to always figure out ways to fill in those gaps when we start losing market share and those bigger markets because of competition.

Nicole Mahoney: 14:42 Absolutely. What a tracking tool are you using? Is that an a Dara or one of the other tools?

Brian Bossuyt: 14:49 He’s Arrivalist

Nicole Mahoney: 14:50 Arrivalist right? Yep. Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, we’ve had other guests on who use Arrivalist and Dara kind of in tandem. So I think that’s great that you have, that those tools are out there and that you’re able to actually track, um, that visitor, uh, from the point where they see the ad all the way into the market. Um, I’m also a little curious about, you said you brought everything on in house and it sounds like that’s really working for you. Um, in terms of, you know, being closer to the data, right and being able to see things more in real time. And I’m curious if you built out your team when you decided to bring everything in house, how did you go about building up the skillset in house to be able to manage all of that?

Brian Bossuyt: 15:33 Well, we did add a few people. Um, some of the things I saw what my team was already done with our agencies and you know, there was a lot of information that they were already kind of sharing together and you know, learning from them and building their skill sets over time. And I knew that Aye, we had hired the right people to be in those spots by bringing some of that stuff in house. I knew that their skillset was there and then it was a matter of getting them trained correctly and no. So we broke up the different things that, so we’re almost like an in house agency. So we have a team that’s working on Web, we have team that’s working on social and then we have [inaudible] team that’s working on the marketing. And overall we have a PR team. So we all work together based off our content calendar and based off the marketing plan and how we’re pushing things out.

Brian Bossuyt: 16:14 So it just made us more efficient. And it also helped the cost savings that we had from the agency fees we put directly back into marketing. So it’s [inaudible] enabled us to take those cost savings and look at new markets and figure out if we want to do TV in those markets or just digital. And then by testing that and using the arrivals data, the Google Hanna whip did a, in some of our web data we were able to determine what those cost savings that we had the opportunities to do more and uh, emerging markets for us, which were Washington, Baltimore and the hilly market. Cause we started seeing those by testing them digitally that we were starting to see growth and visitation from those markets. And then as we grew the marketing campaigns and those markets, we see you continue to see that visitation grow while maintaining the visitation from the New York and Philly market as well.

Nicole Mahoney: 17:01 [inaudible] yeah, I think that’s fantastic. So, um, how big is your marketing team?

Brian Bossuyt: 17:06 Uh, we’re a team of nine, including myself right now. Um, and uh, you know, I hired a, a couple of new PR, um, individuals, our director of PR and our PR coordinator and their boss from the news industry. And we launched our own, uh, Pocono television network last year where we were, we have it on our local cable system [inaudible] negotiating with some other cable systems to get it on that as well as looking at a Roku channel. And that’s really allowed us to grow. Sure. If the content that we’ve been shooting for everything else. And now that we have the team from the news industry, they’re going to start treating that more of like day party in that station and looking at ways that we can have, you know, more lifestyle pieces and information we really want to and turn this into a destination channel. So that when [inaudible] visitors come, they can get our visitors guide, they can learn about the destination channel, whether they’re staying at the vacation rental home or a resort. And they can go to that, that chant on, look for more information that’s also available online. So it’s just another avenue of more content for us that we’re pushing this longer form that people can use as a tool to learn more about the business, the destination as a whole.

Nicole Mahoney: 18:12 Yeah, I think that’s a, I think that’s really awesome and, and they really appreciate you going into detail. I think a lot of our listeners who, you know, might be it, um, smaller, uh, de mos or who might have thought about bringing things in house. I think it really helps them to kind of understand what has been done and you know, and how you approached it as they think about what they might be able to do within their own organizations. Um, and I love this idea. I’d like to know a little bit more about the, the TV, uh, station. Um, I’ve, I’ve actually had another guest on from the New Jersey area who had talked about a similar project. They were getting ready to launch. And I’m wondering if you could share a little bit about how that came about. And um, I know you talked a little bit about what you’re thinking about for the future but what it is now and sort of take us through a little bit of how you got that launched.

Brian Bossuyt: 18:59 Sure. So we um, we then partnering with a company called weather metrics for the last probably 10 years with a web cameras. We have about 30 within the destination that we use for live cameras, the stroke, different points for our destination at different properties, different areas so that people can go on and see the live cameras and see what,

Brian Bossuyt: 19:19 what they’re looking at and maybe [inaudible] gives them more interest or more idea of where they’re coming to visit. So those cameras have been very successful. I think at one point we had [inaudible] 35 million minutes of use on those at one time. And so we partnered with weather masters. They had, they come to me with an idea of utilizing their doctors two channel format for online and we’ve looked at that and we wanted to have something in our visitor’s center. So we started with more of a TV station for our visitors centers that were utilized in the live cameras and some of the content that we are having as well as some of the advertising, the messaging that we had. So that started there. Then over time when we started shooting more of this long form stuff, we started seeing that we could add more content to that channel and we would see that those things, those a creative messages were really resonating well. And then we’ll be [inaudible]. We set up a meeting with some of our local cable companies and Blue Ridge, which is one of our largest, had some interest in it. And then over time I speak things. They gave us their basic [inaudible] plus package to run the station on and then they saw that the content was being absorbed pretty regularly. So then we talked about moving it to their basics package and that’s how we really started the TV station, PTN

Brian Bossuyt: 20:33 [inaudible] television network and that we utilize it in our visitor centers as well. So we have for visitor centers, it’s playing at those visitor centers. Um, we added to a temporary visitor center that we have at Pocono raceway as well. And it’s just really grown. And now by bringing on the two individuals on the PR team that worked for new stations, we’re going to start looking at ways we can curate content more to utilize that station a little bit more. And so that it can be day part or for when people might want to watch the longer form stuff in the evening, during the day, looking at some shorter things that they can learn more about the destination. And that’s really how it’s grown and we’re gonna continue to evolve it.

Nicole Mahoney: 21:10 That sounds really exciting. I love how, you know, you started with, um, the weather webcams, which I did see some of those on your website when I was preparing for this interview. Um, and how that kind of, how one thing leads to another and leads to another and just how these things can build on each other. And, and a, you know, you’re solving a problem in terms of wanting some digital display and your visitors center and then how that evolved and, and grew. I think that’s just really awesome. Yeah. So, um, Brian, I love this next question because I find that I learned so much from our guests and that we are at our creative best when we’re trying to solve for a challenge. And I’m wondering if there is a challenge that you have faced and then maybe if you could share with us a creative solution that came, uh, as a result of that challenge.

Brian Bossuyt: 22:01 Yeah, so one of the things that we found challenging in the last couple of years is there’s a definitely a big issue with litter, no Poconos. And, uh, you know, we’re, we’re the gateway to Pennsylvania and when you’re coming from New York on route 80, so we saw that that was an issue. And when you want to figure out a way that we could, you know, Grinch first shine a light on it and then how are the ways that we can really start to combat it. And we had some of our local townships that were already doing great programs and I’ve been trying to, you know, keep their curb appeal, you know, Nice. And working on their talents are abroads and everything of that nature are a resort owners and properties, no curb appeal. They keep their properties very nice. And there they usually are taking care of the roads outside of the resorts as well.

Brian Bossuyt: 22:46 So we want to, we developed the campaign called pickup the Poconos. We built a website around it, we started buying billboards, we started doing radio, we started doing TV locally just to shine the light on, you know, the litter problem. And then we, we put together a pickup the Poconos day last year in September. And then we said, well how else can we move on there? So then we worked with [inaudible] and you found a vendor that’s [inaudible] approved to pick up the roadways on route 80 and three 80 cause they don’t allow individuals that go on those roads. So we contracted with them, they’re called the adopter hideaway cooperation. And you know, started picking up the litter on those roads as well as them reaching out the Penn dot. And how we could help expand our adopt the highway program within our four counties. And so we started working on all that and we really just keep [inaudible] bringing the awareness to that campaign.

Brian Bossuyt: 23:34 And then this year we said, well, how can we expand it? So then we reached out to the surrounding, uh, deemos and CPPS and Lackawanna, Lucerne, North Hampton and Lehigh and kind of, we’ve started the form of coalition against weather. And we’re working with those GMOs to how do we expand this program to their destinations as well, creating something. And then we gotta Keep Pa beautiful involved in the state, involved in the campaigns, really growing. And then we said, well, how can we grow it more internally in our own destination? So then we started apart, we came up with a partnership with the Monroe County United Way Street, the feet and the Monroe County waste authority. And we developed a corporation called [inaudible] Pocono mountains community caring project, which was call Pocono three, see where we’re, we worked with ’em United way. We want to look for a program that, um, you know, there’s a small homeless program within our region.

Brian Bossuyt: 24:31 So we, we’ve developed this program where we’re taking okay, um, individuals that are less fortunate, maybe on the cusp of homeless or homeless. And we’re giving them a day rate where they’re going out and helping pick up litter with the Monroe County waste authority. And that’s a program that we started in May and we’re going to be on the 90 day, um, 90 days of this next week and we’re going to show all the different things that we’ve done with that. And then it was, we just wanted to be more community partners. So we started working with those companies and now we’re having another pick up the Poconos day of this September. And our goal is to double the size of volunteers for that day and trying to bring more awareness to keeping the Poconos clean as well as giving back to the community and trying to get people back on their feet as well.

Nicole Mahoney: 25:17 That’s amazing. I mean that’s a, that’s such a great example of not only, you know, trying to solve for a pro a problem, but also how

Nicole Mahoney: 25:28 as a DMO and as a tourism professional, you can actually reach into your community and help the community as a whole rather than being focused. So externally, right on just getting those visitors. And um, and I think that’s just a great example of how something that, you know, you started small and then just built belt belt and you’ve got so many different entities involved all the way up to the state level and then we’re able to create this program in partnership with the United way that starts to work on some social issues that, you know, a lot of folks would think isn’t really under the purview, right. Of, of a tourism professional. And, um, I think that’s just a, a fantastic example and case study of, of what really can be done when you put your, when you collaborate, which we’re going to get to in a few minutes. So, um,

Brian Bossuyt: 26:16 yeah, and I, I really credit our CEO because he is the one who really [inaudible] passionate about this as well. And he really wanted to start collaborating. And he and I both when we came, well, I came into this position five years ago and he started three years ago, we really wanted to find ways that we could work more with our four counties or communities, our commissioners, our townships, and really finding out ways that we could build more trust in the brand of the poke in the mountains and get, you know, help get more involved. And it’s constantly, we’re constantly meeting with [inaudible] more people finding out ways that we can help them. And yeah, it’s just a matter of collaborating with them and finding out what they really need, what we need and how we can all work together.

Nicole Mahoney: 26:55 Yeah, absolutely. And, um, I mean, I just think that’s so forward thinking for you. And your CEO to have found that commonality that um, you know, the curb appeal is important. Being a gateway is important. Right. And starting there, but then just how quickly that expanded to so many other groups. Uh, I just think is just amazing. I, I appreciate you sharing that one with us. Um, so I, I’m wondering, Brian, I want to talk more about collaboration in a minute and more about how, how, um, you know, mos really do work, uh, with the local communities. But before we get there, I want to give you an opportunity, we talked about so many cool things that you’re working on already, but is there a project or anything that you’re really excited about, uh, that’s coming up that you’d like to share with our listeners?

Brian Bossuyt: 27:43 Um, well, yeah, we, uh, we’re starting to launch another program that we’re going to call Pocono proud. Um, we announced it, uh, at one of our county meetings last we can, we’re going to look at expanding that to our other three counties and we’re really, it’s a program we want to reach out to the residents and the employees and really find out why they love living in the Poconos and what makes them proud to live in the Poconos. And we started that campaign with a small, a little commercial for it that was shot at an air show that was at Pocono raceway. And then we started interviewing people that were in our downtowns and we’re going to continue to do that and have people share that on social media as well as building the website for it. But really how do we just tell the story of the residence of the Pocono mountains so that they can really tell why they loved to live there, why they’re probably with their, and then share that with the visitors that are coming so that they can find those little gems and the places that people love to go. And really just starting to get them community more involved with it, not just us promoting the destination, but no, really trying to get the destination and the people that live and work here to help promote it as well.

Nicole Mahoney: 28:48 Yeah, absolutely. And um, I’m going to actually kind of, I’ve, I’ve got some questions for you around this and I’m going to skip ahead if you’re following our question flow and for our listeners, they know, this is usually my last question. Um, but it sounds like what you’re doing, uh, in the Pocono mountains is really, um, what I’ve been exploring with our guests this year on the show, which is this whole idea of being more holistic in your approach, um, to destination marketing. And, um, I’m wondering if, uh, you know, you mentioned your CEO and kind of his vision, if this was a, um, a planned and very forward thinking, you know, we’re, we’re going to start to engage with the locals and with local stakeholders or if it was kind of more of a natural evolution. Can you speak a little bit about, you know, how or when you started to see your domain, if you will broaden into that local area and that focus on local?

Brian Bossuyt: 29:43 Well for me, you know, when I came from the members membership side of the, the I not in visitors bureau and um, for me it started with, I didn’t think the communication to the members was as good as it should be. So I want to start with that. Like, how do we get our members more involved? How do we get, you know, collaborate with them more and we’re constantly learning from them. We still have challenges with them. I’m not going to say it’s perfect and we’re not even close to being perfect, but we’ve learned a lot in someone years that we’re trying to figure out ways that we can be better. Um, we’ve also then when Chris came on, we looked at like, how can we get more involved with the chambers and economic development corporations and the commissioner and how can we really get involved with the different downtowns?

Brian Bossuyt: 30:25 And, you know, it’s been a long process to get there, but I think we’re doing a good job and we’re trying to get more people involved and we’re starting to build our team around that so that we can have more community outreach. And it’s really just trying to be warm involved and listening to the different stakeholders in each of the four counties that we have. Each counties look different, but we’re all working together to promote the Pocono mountains. So it’s really just kind of, it was a plan, but, um, I think it’s to evolve to be more than what we were initially planning and now that it’s more of a strategic vision of how do we really just involve the entire destination that promote everything that we want to do together and how do we accomplish that together as well as helping the different organizations, the different individuals and the different, um, [inaudible] entities that I’ll do that together and be successful.

Nicole Mahoney: 31:13 Yeah. I think, um, I think that’s awesome. And I love that. You know, you landed on, it’s a strategic vision. Cause I think that’s really as I was listening to you talk, I think that’s really what it takes. And, and uh, I thought that it at some point you, you had to have that vision and I love that, you know, your CEO came in and started to say, how can we reach out to other organizations, chambers, economic development organizations, downtowns, et cetera. And um, that actually leads nicely into what we like to explore on this show, which is this idea of collaboration. Um, but also what I like to call co-op petition. And, um, I think it’s a really unique position that travel and tourism professionals have to be able to, um, cooperate with perceived competitors to build things that are bigger than you can do on your own.

Nicole Mahoney: 32:00 And I feel like what you’ve just described for us, um, you know, economic development, downtown’s chambers, they could all be viewed as perhaps I’m competitive to your organization. And, um, in terms of their going after members, they’re, you know, marketing the Poconos, they’re doing some similar things for different audiences. Um, but this idea that you were able to bring them all together or that you are working on bringing them all together and getting everybody involved, um, and promoting the destination together, I think is, is just awesome. And I’m, I’m wondering what that word coopertition kind of brings up for you and, and if you know, if these are the examples or if there’s even something else that, that you think of when I mentioned that, that concept to you.

Brian Bossuyt: 32:44 Yeah, I think um, the communication wasn’t the best coming out of the organization to those different entities over. Yep. The past few years when I came on board, you know, we, there was a lot of fragmented messages. Organizations were doing things cause I didn’t feel like that they were getting the voice that they needed through us or through someone else. So we’ve really tried to start working with those individuals and those different organizations to see how we can all work together and collaborate together. Yes, we’re all gonna have different messaging and different objectives, but if we can start promoting the Pocono mountains as the destination that people want to come visit. And then maybe they want to move their business to, or they want to move here or have a second home here and how do we all start utilizing that right [inaudible] brand to accomplish similar goals. And that’s where we’re at now.

Brian Bossuyt: 33:30 I’m not saying that we all work together, but we’ve done a pretty good job getting the chambers to work together with us as well. Well, over the last couple of years we’re starting to work with our economic development corporations low but more as well as, you know, looking at the, um, different community partnerships and how we can help them and really collaborating with the commissioners on their special projects and what they see that really need help from us as well. And it’s then a combination of trying to work through all of that through the different counties and the different commissioners and the different sets of entities that we’ve had. And it’s, it’s always going to be, you know, um, a work in progress. And I think that as long as the lines of communication stay open and that we’re still seeing that and really getting the talk to the different entities. And being more involved than what they’re doing and that w getting them more involved in both, we’re going, I think we can accomplish cycle. And I think it’s something that personally I want to continue to do over the next few years. I’m really starting trying to f you know, be a part of as much as we can so that we’re all accomplishing similar goals and all being successful on the Pocono mountains.

Nicole Mahoney: 34:32 Yeah, absolutely. And uh, I’m wondering if you have some, uh, words of advice to our listeners who might be thinking about ways that they can reach out and get, you know, these types of entities within their own communities more engaged. Are there some things that really worked well for you as, as you started down this path?

Brian Bossuyt: 34:53 I really think it starts with just listening to them and finding out what the challenges are, what their, you know, how they’re feeling, what, what they’ve run roadblocks they’ve run into, whether it working with the, the CVB and the DMO, whether it’s working with different community leaders. How do you get people to the table and just really start listening to them. And then figuring out the best ways of communication, getting the right people in the right meeting, and then expanding from there. The whole thing to me is based off communication. Not trying to force a message on someone, but really listening and figuring out what’s the best way you can collaborate together. You’re not gonna always agree on something, but there’s gotta be some common ground that you can find and start there. And I think that’s, that’s the way to approach it. And it’s just really keeping the, that communication line open and being a good community partner and really trying to work together with everyone.

Nicole Mahoney: 35:45 Yeah, I think a, I think that’s great advice and I love that you started, you know, it is communication, but you start with the listening and really truly listening to each other to try to find that common ground. I think that’s great. So Brian, I knew this would be a really great conversation. I’m really excited, um, for, for what you’ve shared with us. I think there’s some really great new ideas that we haven’t covered on this show before, so I appreciate you being really open with us. Um, and I’m wondering before we say goodbye, if there are any last thoughts or anything that you wanted to share with us that maybe I didn’t ask you about, then also if you could share for our listeners how they can find you. Ah, that would be wonderful.

Brian Bossuyt: 36:26 Sure. Um, you know, the one thing I love about the hospitality industry is that w we’re selling fun and we’re having fun so you’re can’t have fun in your job and the things that you’re doing then, you know, it’s something that you need to get out and enjoy your destination. So you’ve learned out of fun. Again, you know, the work’s always going to be there. There’s always gonna be an email. The answer, there’s always going to be a campaign to get going. But really immersing yourself in your destination and having fun in your destination is going to be the best way that you sell your destination. And I think that’s always been true with everything I’ve done. So if you live it, breathe it and understand it, you’ll have the best time promoting it from that. Some of the best advice someone gave me a long time ago. And that’s the advice that I, I still have today when I talked to other people.

Nicole Mahoney: 37:12 That’s fabulous. I appreciate that. And, and if any of our listeners want to connect with you, where’s the best place that they can find you?

Brian Bossuyt: 37:19 Um, my linkedin page or my email, um, be boss@poconos.org. Those are probably the two best ways to get ahold of me.

Nicole Mahoney: 37:27 That’s fantastic. Brian, thank you so much for sharing some of your time with us today and we’ll look forward to connecting with you again.

Brian Bossuyt: 37:34 All right. Thank you. And it was great talking to you.

Speaker 1: 37:37 It’s time to hit the road again. Visit destination on the left.com during your travels for more podcasts, show notes and fresh ideas.

Brian Bossyut: 01:58 Oh, thank you.

Nicole Mahoney: 01:59 Yes. Okay.

Brian Bossyut: 02:00 A pleasure being on your show.

Nicole Mahoney: 02:01 Yeah. I’m excited to talk to you and, uh, and uh, and learn from you. And, and I, I love how you talk about, um, in your bio, you know, the, the constraints of limited budgets and marketing resources, but then all of those pointers, just in your bio alone, you’re already teaching our listeners about, you know, how, how you can be successful with campaigns even despite a limited budget or limited marketing resources. So I think that’s just awesome. But before we dive into the questions, I love to hear your story in your own words. I think it adds just so much more context to our conversation. So could you tell us a little bit about your journey and how you got to where you are today?

Brian Bossyut: 02:40 Sure. Um, I grew up in the Poconos and uh, you know, always kind of been in the hot seat. How the industry in some form or shape, why not. I started, you know, helping family businesses that were friends of my family, um, with some things like be in a bus. [inaudible] had a family restaurant when I was around 11 and 12. My parents are own and still own a, a real estate company were helping them, you know, setting up houses or you know, stripping sheets, [inaudible] sheets in getting ready for runners, getting, you know, home set up for sale, always being available to help my parents and just being a part of that hospitality industry. I’m from being a lifeguard as well as, um, a waiter. Boy I was a cook for a little while, so dabbled in a lot of things, worked for a ski shop.

Brian Bossyut: 03:29 And that’s when I found my love of the ski industry. I grew up skiing, started when I was around three years old and just really loved that industry. And over time, uh, when I was in high school and looking at colleges, I want to find a program where I can be more involved with possibly going to work for a skier and being a management eskie or someday. And that’s kind of what kind of led me through my journey as becoming an adult and going to college. I majored in sports management at slippery rock university. It was the second school in the country to have that program. Um, in the, um, mid nineties. So it was a cutting edge program and it really, you know, showed the business side of sports and it was a great program. And after college I, um, moved on and uh, did my internship at Hunter Mountain at the ski industry.

Brian Bossyut: 04:19 Yep. Okay. In our sales and marketing department. And the best part about that internship was that they really included me a lot that they overall operations of the resort and I was there for about five months and really got immersed in the culture of the ski industry and everything else that comes with it and just fell in love with it more and more. And after my internship and graduating college, um, Aye looked around for some jobs, both in the Poconos, in the northeast and Vermont and that area and out west and okay. Found ’em camelback and uh, I had been working there as Lyft attended through college, so I had some contacts there and started working there at their front desk. And then a few months I was in the marketing department. And, uh, the, it was great timing to be there after my first year. Um, they broke ground on the outdoor water park that they have now, Campbell beach.

Brian Bossyut: 05:14 And from there on out, uh, over the years, it just kept expanding. And I got promoted and as the assistant marketing director there after the a water park opened and then shortly thereafter I became the sales marketing director and was there for all the different expansions that they had and a change of ownership as well. And I really love that [inaudible] company in that business and everything that came with it. I got the meat, great people throughout my years. And you know, one of the things that’s, and successful and one of the things I learned from that job is the way you build a team around you really helps you be successful. And you know, I’ve learned from some good managers and some bad managers and just kind of tried to craft my managerial skills over the year. Just learning to adapt to, um, a seasonal job is, teaches you to be more creative.

Brian Bossyut: 06:04 And you have to adapt quickly because of the weather and you know, even at the visitor’s bureau now are our seasons are so dependent on weather. So learning how to, you know, adapt to those different things and making sure your creative is up to date and that your messages right. I think uh, the first year that I was in the job with the visitors bureau [inaudible] was the warmest winter we ever had on record on the Pocono mountains. And you know, we had our winter campaigns all set to go and I think we delayed them until mid January and we started promoting all the outdoor activities that weren’t winter and what kind of creative messages we could do and what we could do with the website and social media. So just learning to adapt and making sure that you have a plan in place and a backup. I plan on, I think those are some of the things that have helped me be successful and helped where I’ve been and the teams that I’ve had be successful because we’re all always willing to learn and adapt and learn from our mistakes as well as learn from the different things that we’ve had to change over the time.

Brian Bossyut: 07:02 So that’s kind of the long and short end of my story. And, um, you know, I’m a firm believer that you’d have to find the right people to do good job with you because I don’t like micromanaging. I think managing a team is you build them, you build your team based off their strengths so that you can get the, the job done and the message out there and, um, it’s usually a funner experience working together that way.

Nicole Mahoney: 07:27 Absolutely. Um, and I, I just, uh, love so much about your story. Um, to start, I love how ingrained the hospitality industry is, you know, in your or wise in your upbringing. Um, you know, all of that front line experience that you had as you were growing up. Um, and then how you were able to kind of find your, your passion and, and go after that sports management degree. Um, but what I would I really loved is how you talked about having a plan and having a backup plan and how, uh, you know, how contingent things can be, especially, you know, any destination really is. Um, regardless, I believe even if you’re a warm, year-round warm destination, there’s always weather, um, issues or weather changes that come up and you need to be ready at any time to adapt and adjust. I think that’s just fantastic.

Brian Bossyut: 08:20 Yeah. I also forgot to mention, um, you know, I started bartending about 20 years ago and I still bartend one night a week as a moonlighting job. And one of the reasons I love doing that is in a vacation community. So get the, kind of, ask people how they found out about the Poconos or how they found out about certain things. So it’s a little market research as well as having a good time bartending. So I still do that on the side as well.

Nicole Mahoney: 08:45 You know, and I think that’s a good point cause I think that’s so important to, you know, keep your um, your finger on the pulse if you will, and really understand what is happening out there in the destination. You know, sometimes if we’re marketing the destination and we’re attracting those visitors, if we don’t actually get our feet on the ground and talk to the visitors and understand who really is coming and, and how they found us, um, know we might miss opportunities that way. So I think that’s a great point.

Brian Bossyut: 09:11 Yeah. And my family and I, we love going to all the different things that go on in the Poconos, whether it be events or festivals or gone to the properties. And I really get to spend some time with guests that are there and they have no idea who I am. And it’s just fun to kind of interact and learn from them and see what their challenges are. And then you can take that [inaudible] back and look at those things when you’re putting together your marketing plans and how you’re talking to the visitors. So it’s, it’s always good to get out there and kind of immerse yourself in the [inaudible] and the destination and learn more from the visitors as well, talking to your, your members and your operators and [inaudible] their challenges are, and just keeping that open line of communication.

Nicole Mahoney: 09:49 [inaudible] absolutely. I think that’s awesome. So creativity has already come up a couple of times in our conversation and I’d, I’d like to dive into some of these questions and I’m curious. Um, you know, the, the tourism and hospitality industry is very competitive. There’s so many choices of places, people to visit, different experiences that people can have. They can even choose to stay home and not to travel. And so I’m wondering what you have done, um, to stand out from the crowd.

Brian Bossyut: 10:18 I think some of the things that we’ve done, especially now on the Plat past few years, we’ve really tried to take a different approach to our, our marketing and creative and message. So on the broadcast end of it, you know, we’ve really, we’ve started doing more of a two minute segment that includes three to four different properties that are similar in a message and that gives us a little more longer format content that we started running in New York and Philly. And then we moved those to our local markets, regional markets as well as into the Washington and Baltimore markets as well. And that gives us a little bit longer form content that we can then use to push out through social and digital as well and telling that whole story. And then we have a healthy mix of using similar creative to reach the those visitors while there watching those commercials and we run them in the highest rated news so that they look more like a news package, but then we, they part are digital and social around when those ads are being run so that we’re getting them on multiple devices across channels and then hitting them when are maybe not watching it maybe on Ott and connected TV as well.

Brian Bossyut: 11:24 So we really tried to keep the same message but craft differently for the different mediums. So it’s driving them for the same area to learn more about the different things that we have to offer. And that’s kind of how we’ve molded our, our creativity over the last couple of years. Another thing we did was we brought creative and all of our media buying and how some are placed in everything directly, which has really helped us optimize our campaigns, test our creative more. We can do more ab testing, see which creative is better on which mediums and then really optimize yeah. Those creative messages to the markets and our target audiences the way that we want and really keep pushing out the message that’s resonating more with those audiences rather than just trying to figure it out. We use data a lot to try and figure out what messages work. And after each campaign we go back and look at that, try and crack the next campaign based off what we’ve learned from the other campaigns.

Nicole Mahoney: 12:19 Yeah. I think, uh, I think that’s um, so important. And I’d like to know a little bit more about what data, what types of data are you using and, and are you using any, you know, outside, um, tools or measurement tools that are helping you with that. If you could expand on that a little bit. I know using, figuring out data and how to use it best I know is, is definitely a challenge for many of our listeners. So I’d love to know a little bit more about how you are, uh, leveraging that and how you’re, how you’re finding but the data that you need.

Brian Bossyut: 12:51 Sure. So one of the challenges for me coming into the DMO industry from a resort, you know, I have the ability to track all of my sales prove ROI based off campaigns. And as with DMR you don’t, we don’t really own anything and we don’t really get to track everything till the end. So it was really learning to find some technology out there that could help me accomplish that. And I found a company where it uses location data that I can really pixel and track all of my digital ads as well as social ads. And anything online to see when the first time person sees our add on what on different mediums. And then the travel path that they see with different digital ads as well as we’re starting to figure out how to add broadcast in the bed as well. And it shows the journey of where they’re coming from, what market the time it takes from when they first see the ad all the way through when they’re in market.

Brian Bossyut: 13:44 And we can follow them up to 30 feet for as long as they’re in the market and look at different points of interest that we [inaudible] okay. To see where they’re going within our market and then how long they go and then when they come back. And it also helps me use that data to figure out what markets are the strongest, where we can have opportunities to grow in new markets and what’s the best way to retarget those markets. So it’s a, it’s a whole combination of that. And then looking at, you know, since we’re replacing all the digital media directly as well, we can then take all that information, layer it in with the location data and it really helps us plan where we want to go. Two, not only expand on the markets we’re doing well in, but what are some of the opportunities and new markets to help back sell some a loss, especially in the New York and Philly markets. Cause there’s so much competition, we have to always figure out ways to fill in those gaps when we start losing market share and those bigger markets because of competition.

Nicole Mahoney: 14:42 Absolutely. What a tracking tool are you using? Is that an a Dara or one of the other tools?

Brian Bossyut: 14:49 He’s Arrivalist

Nicole Mahoney: 14:50 Arrivalist right? Yep. Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, we’ve had other guests on who use Arrivalist and Dara kind of in tandem. So I think that’s great that you have, that those tools are out there and that you’re able to actually track, um, that visitor, uh, from the point where they see the ad all the way into the market. Um, I’m also a little curious about, you said you brought everything on in house and it sounds like that’s really working for you. Um, in terms of, you know, being closer to the data, right and being able to see things more in real time. And I’m curious if you built out your team when you decided to bring everything in house, how did you go about building up the skillset in house to be able to manage all of that?

Brian Bossyut: 15:33 Well, we did add a few people. Um, some of the things I saw what my team was already done with our agencies and you know, there was a lot of information that they were already kind of sharing together and you know, learning from them and building their skill sets over time. And I knew that Aye, we had hired the right people to be in those spots by bringing some of that stuff in house. I knew that their skillset was there and then it was a matter of getting them trained correctly and no. So we broke up the different things that, so we’re almost like an in house agency. So we have a team that’s working on Web, we have team that’s working on social and then we have [inaudible] team that’s working on the marketing. And overall we have a PR team. So we all work together based off our content calendar and based off the marketing plan and how we’re pushing things out.

Brian Bossyut: 16:14 So it just made us more efficient. And it also helped the cost savings that we had from the agency fees we put directly back into marketing. So it’s [inaudible] enabled us to take those cost savings and look at new markets and figure out if we want to do TV in those markets or just digital. And then by testing that and using the arrivals data, the Google Hanna whip did a, in some of our web data we were able to determine what those cost savings that we had the opportunities to do more and uh, emerging markets for us, which were Washington, Baltimore and the hilly market. Cause we started seeing those by testing them digitally that we were starting to see growth and visitation from those markets. And then as we grew the marketing campaigns and those markets, we see you continue to see that visitation grow while maintaining the visitation from the New York and Philly market as well.

Nicole Mahoney: 17:01 [inaudible] yeah, I think that’s fantastic. So, um, how big is your marketing team?

Brian Bossyut: 17:06 Uh, we’re a team of nine, including myself right now. Um, and uh, you know, I hired a, a couple of new PR, um, individuals, our director of PR and our PR coordinator and their boss from the news industry. And we launched our own, uh, Pocono television network last year where we were, we have it on our local cable system [inaudible] negotiating with some other cable systems to get it on that as well as looking at a Roku channel. And that’s really allowed us to grow. Sure. If the content that we’ve been shooting for everything else. And now that we have the team from the news industry, they’re going to start treating that more of like day party in that station and looking at ways that we can have, you know, more lifestyle pieces and information we really want to and turn this into a destination channel. So that when [inaudible] visitors come, they can get our visitors guide, they can learn about the destination channel, whether they’re staying at the vacation rental home or a resort. And they can go to that, that chant on, look for more information that’s also available online. So it’s just another avenue of more content for us that we’re pushing this longer form that people can use as a tool to learn more about the business, the destination as a whole.

Nicole Mahoney: 18:12 Yeah, I think that’s a, I think that’s really awesome and, and they really appreciate you going into detail. I think a lot of our listeners who, you know, might be it, um, smaller, uh, de mos or who might have thought about bringing things in house. I think it really helps them to kind of understand what has been done and you know, and how you approached it as they think about what they might be able to do within their own organizations. Um, and I love this idea. I’d like to know a little bit more about the, the TV, uh, station. Um, I’ve, I’ve actually had another guest on from the New Jersey area who had talked about a similar project. They were getting ready to launch. And I’m wondering if you could share a little bit about how that came about. And um, I know you talked a little bit about what you’re thinking about for the future but what it is now and sort of take us through a little bit of how you got that launched.

Brian Bossyut: 18:59 Sure. So we um, we then partnering with a company called weather metrics for the last probably 10 years with a web cameras. We have about 30 within the destination that we use for live cameras, the stroke, different points for our destination at different properties, different areas so that people can go on and see the live cameras and see what,

Brian Bossyut: 19:19 what they’re looking at and maybe [inaudible] gives them more interest or more idea of where they’re coming to visit. So those cameras have been very successful. I think at one point we had [inaudible] 35 million minutes of use on those at one time. And so we partnered with weather masters. They had, they come to me with an idea of utilizing their doctors two channel format for online and we’ve looked at that and we wanted to have something in our visitor’s center. So we started with more of a TV station for our visitors centers that were utilized in the live cameras and some of the content that we are having as well as some of the advertising, the messaging that we had. So that started there. Then over time when we started shooting more of this long form stuff, we started seeing that we could add more content to that channel and we would see that those things, those a creative messages were really resonating well. And then we’ll be [inaudible]. We set up a meeting with some of our local cable companies and Blue Ridge, which is one of our largest, had some interest in it. And then over time I speak things. They gave us their basic [inaudible] plus package to run the station on and then they saw that the content was being absorbed pretty regularly. So then we talked about moving it to their basics package and that’s how we really started the TV station, PTN

Brian Bossyut: 20:33 [inaudible] television network and that we utilize it in our visitor centers as well. So we have for visitor centers, it’s playing at those visitor centers. Um, we added to a temporary visitor center that we have at Pocono raceway as well. And it’s just really grown. And now by bringing on the two individuals on the PR team that worked for new stations, we’re going to start looking at ways we can curate content more to utilize that station a little bit more. And so that it can be day part or for when people might want to watch the longer form stuff in the evening, during the day, looking at some shorter things that they can learn more about the destination. And that’s really how it’s grown and we’re gonna continue to evolve it.

Nicole Mahoney: 21:10 That sounds really exciting. I love how, you know, you started with, um, the weather webcams, which I did see some of those on your website when I was preparing for this interview. Um, and how that kind of, how one thing leads to another and leads to another and just how these things can build on each other. And, and a, you know, you’re solving a problem in terms of wanting some digital display and your visitors center and then how that evolved and, and grew. I think that’s just really awesome. Yeah. So, um, Brian, I love this next question because I find that I learned so much from our guests and that we are at our creative best when we’re trying to solve for a challenge. And I’m wondering if there is a challenge that you have faced and then maybe if you could share with us a creative solution that came, uh, as a result of that challenge.

Brian Bossyut: 22:01 Yeah, so one of the things that we found challenging in the last couple of years is there’s a definitely a big issue with litter, no Poconos. And, uh, you know, we’re, we’re the gateway to Pennsylvania and when you’re coming from New York on route 80, so we saw that that was an issue. And when you want to figure out a way that we could, you know, Grinch first shine a light on it and then how are the ways that we can really start to combat it. And we had some of our local townships that were already doing great programs and I’ve been trying to, you know, keep their curb appeal, you know, Nice. And working on their talents are abroads and everything of that nature are a resort owners and properties, no curb appeal. They keep their properties very nice. And there they usually are taking care of the roads outside of the resorts as well.

Brian Bossyut: 22:46 So we want to, we developed the campaign called pickup the Poconos. We built a website around it, we started buying billboards, we started doing radio, we started doing TV locally just to shine the light on, you know, the litter problem. And then we, we put together a pickup the Poconos day last year in September. And then we said, well how else can we move on there? So then we worked with [inaudible] and you found a vendor that’s [inaudible] approved to pick up the roadways on route 80 and three 80 cause they don’t allow individuals that go on those roads. So we contracted with them, they’re called the adopter hideaway cooperation. And you know, started picking up the litter on those roads as well as them reaching out the Penn dot. And how we could help expand our adopt the highway program within our four counties. And so we started working on all that and we really just keep [inaudible] bringing the awareness to that campaign.

Brian Bossyut: 23:34 And then this year we said, well, how can we expand it? So then we reached out to the surrounding, uh, deemos and CPPS and Lackawanna, Lucerne, North Hampton and Lehigh and kind of, we’ve started the form of coalition against weather. And we’re working with those GMOs to how do we expand this program to their destinations as well, creating something. And then we gotta Keep Pa beautiful involved in the state, involved in the campaigns, really growing. And then we said, well, how can we grow it more internally in our own destination? So then we started apart, we came up with a partnership with the Monroe County United Way Street, the feet and the Monroe County waste authority. And we developed a corporation called [inaudible] Pocono mountains community caring project, which was call Pocono three, see where we’re, we worked with ’em United way. We want to look for a program that, um, you know, there’s a small homeless program within our region.

Brian Bossyut: 24:31 So we, we’ve developed this program where we’re taking okay, um, individuals that are less fortunate, maybe on the cusp of homeless or homeless. And we’re giving them a day rate where they’re going out and helping pick up litter with the Monroe County waste authority. And that’s a program that we started in May and we’re going to be on the 90 day, um, 90 days of this next week and we’re going to show all the different things that we’ve done with that. And then it was, we just wanted to be more community partners. So we started working with those companies and now we’re having another pick up the Poconos day of this September. And our goal is to double the size of volunteers for that day and trying to bring more awareness to keeping the Poconos clean as well as giving back to the community and trying to get people back on their feet as well.

Nicole Mahoney: 25:17 That’s amazing. I mean that’s a, that’s such a great example of not only, you know, trying to solve for a pro a problem, but also how

Nicole Mahoney: 25:28 as a DMO and as a tourism professional, you can actually reach into your community and help the community as a whole rather than being focused. So externally, right on just getting those visitors. And um, and I think that’s just a great example of how something that, you know, you started small and then just built belt belt and you’ve got so many different entities involved all the way up to the state level and then we’re able to create this program in partnership with the United way that starts to work on some social issues that, you know, a lot of folks would think isn’t really under the purview, right. Of, of a tourism professional. And, um, I think that’s just a, a fantastic example and case study of, of what really can be done when you put your, when you collaborate, which we’re going to get to in a few minutes. So, um,

Brian Bossyut: 26:16 yeah, and I, I really credit our CEO because he is the one who really [inaudible] passionate about this as well. And he really wanted to start collaborating. And he and I both when we came, well, I came into this position five years ago and he started three years ago, we really wanted to find ways that we could work more with our four counties or communities, our commissioners, our townships, and really finding out ways that we could build more trust in the brand of the poke in the mountains and get, you know, help get more involved. And it’s constantly, we’re constantly meeting with [inaudible] more people finding out ways that we can help them. And yeah, it’s just a matter of collaborating with them and finding out what they really need, what we need and how we can all work together.

Nicole Mahoney: 26:55 Yeah, absolutely. And, um, I mean, I just think that’s so forward thinking for you. And your CEO to have found that commonality that um, you know, the curb appeal is important. Being a gateway is important. Right. And starting there, but then just how quickly that expanded to so many other groups. Uh, I just think is just amazing. I, I appreciate you sharing that one with us. Um, so I, I’m wondering, Brian, I want to talk more about collaboration in a minute and more about how, how, um, you know, mos really do work, uh, with the local communities. But before we get there, I want to give you an opportunity, we talked about so many cool things that you’re working on already, but is there a project or anything that you’re really excited about, uh, that’s coming up that you’d like to share with our listeners?

Brian Bossyut: 27:43 Um, well, yeah, we, uh, we’re starting to launch another program that we’re going to call Pocono proud. Um, we announced it, uh, at one of our county meetings last we can, we’re going to look at expanding that to our other three counties and we’re really, it’s a program we want to reach out to the residents and the employees and really find out why they love living in the Poconos and what makes them proud to live in the Poconos. And we started that campaign with a small, a little commercial for it that was shot at an air show that was at Pocono raceway. And then we started interviewing people that were in our downtowns and we’re going to continue to do that and have people share that on social media as well as building the website for it. But really how do we just tell the story of the residence of the Pocono mountains so that they can really tell why they loved to live there, why they’re probably with their, and then share that with the visitors that are coming so that they can find those little gems and the places that people love to go. And really just starting to get them community more involved with it, not just us promoting the destination, but no, really trying to get the destination and the people that live and work here to help promote it as well.

Nicole Mahoney: 28:48 Yeah, absolutely. And um, I’m going to actually kind of, I’ve, I’ve got some questions for you around this and I’m going to skip ahead if you’re following our question flow and for our listeners, they know, this is usually my last question. Um, but it sounds like what you’re doing, uh, in the Pocono mountains is really, um, what I’ve been exploring with our guests this year on the show, which is this whole idea of being more holistic in your approach, um, to destination marketing. And, um, I’m wondering if, uh, you know, you mentioned your CEO and kind of his vision, if this was a, um, a planned and very forward thinking, you know, we’re, we’re going to start to engage with the locals and with local stakeholders or if it was kind of more of a natural evolution. Can you speak a little bit about, you know, how or when you started to see your domain, if you will broaden into that local area and that focus on local?

Brian Bossyut: 29:43 Well for me, you know, when I came from the members membership side of the, the I not in visitors bureau and um, for me it started with, I didn’t think the communication to the members was as good as it should be. So I want to start with that. Like, how do we get our members more involved? How do we get, you know, collaborate with them more and we’re constantly learning from them. We still have challenges with them. I’m not going to say it’s perfect and we’re not even close to being perfect, but we’ve learned a lot in someone years that we’re trying to figure out ways that we can be better. Um, we’ve also then when Chris came on, we looked at like, how can we get more involved with the chambers and economic development corporations and the commissioner and how can we really get involved with the different downtowns?

Brian Bossyut: 30:25 And, you know, it’s been a long process to get there, but I think we’re doing a good job and we’re trying to get more people involved and we’re starting to build our team around that so that we can have more community outreach. And it’s really just trying to be warm involved and listening to the different stakeholders in each of the four counties that we have. Each counties look different, but we’re all working together to promote the Pocono mountains. So it’s really just kind of, it was a plan, but, um, I think it’s to evolve to be more than what we were initially planning and now that it’s more of a strategic vision of how do we really just involve the entire destination that promote everything that we want to do together and how do we accomplish that together as well as helping the different organizations, the different individuals and the different, um, [inaudible] entities that I’ll do that together and be successful.

Nicole Mahoney: 31:13 Yeah. I think, um, I think that’s awesome. And I love that. You know, you landed on, it’s a strategic vision. Cause I think that’s really as I was listening to you talk, I think that’s really what it takes. And, and uh, I thought that it at some point you, you had to have that vision and I love that, you know, your CEO came in and started to say, how can we reach out to other organizations, chambers, economic development organizations, downtowns, et cetera. And um, that actually leads nicely into what we like to explore on this show, which is this idea of collaboration. Um, but also what I like to call co-op petition. And, um, I think it’s a really unique position that travel and tourism professionals have to be able to, um, cooperate with perceived competitors to build things that are bigger than you can do on your own.

Nicole Mahoney: 32:00 And I feel like what you’ve just described for us, um, you know, economic development, downtown’s chambers, they could all be viewed as perhaps I’m competitive to your organization. And, um, in terms of their going after members, they’re, you know, marketing the Poconos, they’re doing some similar things for different audiences. Um, but this idea that you were able to bring them all together or that you are working on bringing them all together and getting everybody involved, um, and promoting the destination together, I think is, is just awesome. And I’m, I’m wondering what that word coopertition kind of brings up for you and, and if you know, if these are the examples or if there’s even something else that, that you think of when I mentioned that, that concept to you.

Brian Bossyut: 32:44 Yeah, I think um, the communication wasn’t the best coming out of the organization to those different entities over. Yep. The past few years when I came on board, you know, we, there was a lot of fragmented messages. Organizations were doing things cause I didn’t feel like that they were getting the voice that they needed through us or through someone else. So we’ve really tried to start working with those individuals and those different organizations to see how we can all work together and collaborate together. Yes, we’re all gonna have different messaging and different objectives, but if we can start promoting the Pocono mountains as the destination that people want to come visit. And then maybe they want to move their business to, or they want to move here or have a second home here and how do we all start utilizing that right [inaudible] brand to accomplish similar goals. And that’s where we’re at now.

Brian Bossyut: 33:30 I’m not saying that we all work together, but we’ve done a pretty good job getting the chambers to work together with us as well. Well, over the last couple of years we’re starting to work with our economic development corporations low but more as well as, you know, looking at the, um, different community partnerships and how we can help them and really collaborating with the commissioners on their special projects and what they see that really need help from us as well. And it’s then a combination of trying to work through all of that through the different counties and the different commissioners and the different sets of entities that we’ve had. And it’s, it’s always going to be, you know, um, a work in progress. And I think that as long as the lines of communication stay open and that we’re still seeing that and really getting the talk to the different entities. And being more involved than what they’re doing and that w getting them more involved in both, we’re going, I think we can accomplish cycle. And I think it’s something that personally I want to continue to do over the next few years. I’m really starting trying to f you know, be a part of as much as we can so that we’re all accomplishing similar goals and all being successful on the Pocono mountains.

Nicole Mahoney: 34:32 Yeah, absolutely. And uh, I’m wondering if you have some, uh, words of advice to our listeners who might be thinking about ways that they can reach out and get, you know, these types of entities within their own communities more engaged. Are there some things that really worked well for you as, as you started down this path?

Brian Bossyut: 34:53 I really think it starts with just listening to them and finding out what the challenges are, what their, you know, how they’re feeling, what, what they’ve run roadblocks they’ve run into, whether it working with the, the CVB and the DMO, whether it’s working with different community leaders. How do you get people to the table and just really start listening to them. And then figuring out the best ways of communication, getting the right people in the right meeting, and then expanding from there. The whole thing to me is based off communication. Not trying to force a message on someone, but really listening and figuring out what’s the best way you can collaborate together. You’re not gonna always agree on something, but there’s gotta be some common ground that you can find and start there. And I think that’s, that’s the way to approach it. And it’s just really keeping the, that communication line open and being a good community partner and really trying to work together with everyone.

Nicole Mahoney: 35:45 Yeah, I think a, I think that’s great advice and I love that you started, you know, it is communication, but you start with the listening and really truly listening to each other to try to find that common ground. I think that’s great. So Brian, I knew this would be a really great conversation. I’m really excited, um, for, for what you’ve shared with us. I think there’s some really great new ideas that we haven’t covered on this show before, so I appreciate you being really open with us. Um, and I’m wondering before we say goodbye, if there are any last thoughts or anything that you wanted to share with us that maybe I didn’t ask you about, then also if you could share for our listeners how they can find you. Ah, that would be wonderful.

Brian Bossyut: 36:26 Sure. Um, you know, the one thing I love about the hospitality industry is that w we’re selling fun and we’re having fun so you’re can’t have fun in your job and the things that you’re doing then, you know, it’s something that you need to get out and enjoy your destination. So you’ve learned out of fun. Again, you know, the work’s always going to be there. There’s always gonna be an email. The answer, there’s always going to be a campaign to get going. But really immersing yourself in your destination and having fun in your destination is going to be the best way that you sell your destination. And I think that’s always been true with everything I’ve done. So if you live it, breathe it and understand it, you’ll have the best time promoting it from that. Some of the best advice someone gave me a long time ago. And that’s the advice that I, I still have today when I talked to other people.

Nicole Mahoney: 37:12 That’s fabulous. I appreciate that. And, and if any of our listeners want to connect with you, where’s the best place that they can find you?

Brian Bossyut: 37:19 Um, my linkedin page or my email, um, be boss@poconos.org. Those are probably the two best ways to get ahold of me.

Nicole Mahoney: 37:27 That’s fantastic. Brian, thank you so much for sharing some of your time with us today and we’ll look forward to connecting with you again.

Brian Bossyut: 37:34 All right. Thank you. And it was great talking to you.

Speaker 1: 37:37 It’s time to hit the road again. Visit destination on the left.com during your travels for more podcasts, show notes and fresh ideas.